This year, OIPE has joined the well-known IKE and IKZE retirement accounts. Is it worth using it? Read my opinion on the "European Pension" from Finax.
The end of the year is a time when bloggers and financial institutions remind us that "the chance to take advantage of this year's limits of voluntary contributions to IKE and IKZE retirement accounts is ending soon." This year, the puzzle of where and how much to contribute has become even more complicated, because the OIPE , or Pan-European Individual Pension Product , recently debuted.
This is a new product from the third pillar of pensions, significantly increasing the amount that we can add to investment portfolios every year, in which we will not have to pay the Belka tax, if we survive until the age of tax advantage. Additionally, it allows the transfer of accumulated funds between European Union countries, where appropriate regulations have already been implemented.
This is the theory, because in practice, at the moment the only provider of PEPE accounts in Poland and PEPP accounts in the European Union is the robo-advisor Finax – already well known to the readers of this blog.
So I invite you to a short discussion of PEPE and the justification for using this solution. 🙂 The following article is a mix of content that you can find in the new book "Just Buy" , as well as additional comments that I have posted only on the blog.
Just to be clear: this is NOT an affiliate post . Finax or anyone else does not pay me (or ever has) to describe their services. I simply think they do a good job and I support their activities in Poland.
The main advantage of voluntary pension products is the so-called tax shield , i.e. the ability to invest without paying capital gains tax (in Poland for many years it has been 19% of profits earned and 19% of dividends received).
To be exempt from this tax, you must have contributed to each of your retirement accounts for at least 5 years (it does not have to be continuous), and you must also be persistent and refrain from withdrawing money from your retirement accounts before reaching a legally required age, which I call the tax advantage age .
What age is this? It depends on the pension product:
IKE, PPE, OIPE allow you to take advantage of tax preferences after the age of sixty or even at the age of 55, provided that you acquire retirement rights earlier. It is different with IKZE, which requires you to survive until the age of 65.
How beneficial is the tax shield? For example, let's say we have two people who have saved the same amount of PLN 10,000. Adam deposited it into a regular, taxable brokerage account - one where he did not incur any transaction costs - and then invested PLN 10,000 in one stock ETF (accumulating paid dividends). After 30 years, the final value of his investment was PLN 70,000 (CAGR = 6.7%). After selling the ETF, Adam pocketed a large amount, but he also had to pay capital gains tax. The profit was PLN 60,000 (PLN 70,000 - PLN 10,000), and the tax due was PLN 11,400 (19% of PLN 60,000). As a result, Adam's investment gave him a net profit of PLN 48,600.
Ewa was smarter, though. She made the same deposit into her IKE retirement account . She bought exactly the same thing and achieved exactly the same result – PLN 70,000. If the end of her investment falls when she is over 60, then thanks to the tax shield, she will withdraw the full amount of PLN 70,000 from her IKE account and will not have to pay capital gains tax. As a result, her net profit will amount to PLN 60,000 – PLN 11,400 more than Adam.
It sounds great, but it would be too good to pay no capital gains taxes at all. That’s why retirement accounts have annual contribution limits .
The table below shows the annual contribution limits for 2023:
As you can see, we can deposit the most into IKE and OIPE accounts ourselves. In 2023, these amounts are PLN 20,805 and PLN 21,312, respectively (they are exceptionally different). A new limit amount is determined every year and in the case of IKE and OIPE, it is three times the average forecasted monthly salary in the national economy for a given year. You don't have to calculate it yourself. Institutions offering these accounts publish a list of new limits at the beginning of each year. If you deposit more into the account, the recipient of the transfer will send you the surplus.
You can pay much less into IKZE, i.e. PLN 8,322 or even PLN 12,483 , if you are self-employed. This is a nod from the state towards entrepreneurs, who usually pay low mandatory pension contributions, so as a rule they should save more on their own. These limits are 1.2 times and 1.8 times the average forecast monthly salary in the national economy for a given year, respectively.
The third pension pillar also includes PPK and PPE ( I discussed the first of these products in this article ). Unfortunately, not everyone has access to them, so let's add up the limits of contributions to IKE, IKZE and OIPE and see how much you can save for retirement each year to fully use the tax shield:
It must be admitted that this is already quite a lot. Many people do not have such financial surpluses, so they have to decide in what order to deposit money into the various types of retirement accounts. I have discussed this in detail in the book "Just Buy". Here I will briefly summarize that - in my opinion - it is worth filling out an IKE account first , because it gives the greatest flexibility in terms of the form of running a retirement account, the possibility of transferring funds to other providers, possibly an earlier return of funds (in installments or in full), as well as flexibility in the method of withdrawing funds in retirement.
However, if you have already filled your annual IKE limit and have further surpluses and/or you are running an IKE with an expensive provider, the question arises what to do in such a situation. Should you pay into an IKZE? Or maybe opt for a new OIPE account? For whom is the latter suitable and for whom is it not?
PEPE is a completely new voluntary retirement savings program. The introduction of PEPE into Polish law under the Act of 7 July 2023 is the fulfillment of the requirements of the regulation of the European Parliament and the EU Council of 2019, which required the creation of such products throughout the EU. Abroad, they operate under the name PEPP (short for Pan-European Personal Pension product ).
PEPP in Poland can be offered by many financial institutions: banks, insurance companies, brokerage houses, asset management companies, alternative investment companies and pension fund management companies. But this is just a theory, because in practice the list of PEPP providers is very short at the time of this article's publication - in the whole of Europe, only one company offers PEPP-type products, the Finax robo-advisor.
Perhaps the reason for the low interest from suppliers is the fact that:
According to the Act, the OIPE provider must offer clients portfolios managed by them , so the client does not have the option of choosing the instruments that make up the portfolios on their own. In this respect, OIPE functions similarly to PPK, but it will never allow us to invest independently, as is the case, for example, in IKE at a brokerage house.
So much for the general theory, let us now move on to a closer look at the only PEPE product currently available on the Polish market.
Yesterday Artur Wiśniewski published a very good article on his blog about OIPE describing in detail the parameters of this retirement solution. I encourage you to read it in detail BEFORE you go on to the rest of my article.
While Artur's text perfectly describes the product as such, I have slightly different conclusions from Artur regarding the product itself and I believe that the Finax PEI should be placed in a broader context than Artur outlined .
Therefore, please treat the rest of this material as a supplement to Artur's article and - in places - a polemic. I think that this approach will give you a more complete picture and will allow you to decide for yourself whether it is worth opening (and topping up) an OIPE account.
The first PEPP was launched in Poland literally a moment before the book “Just Buy” was published. The product, called European Pension, is provided by the robo-advisor Finax. As I mentioned, it has a unique position in the PEPP/PEPP area, as it is the only provider offering this type of product in the entire European Union (at the time of publication of this article). Finax’s PEPP is currently available in Poland, Slovakia, the Czech Republic, and Croatia.
Finax offers customers two variants of the PEPE European Pension product:
As in its robo-advisory service, the provider uses low-cost ETFs to build its portfolios. In terms of composition, these are exactly the same 100/0 and 80/20 portfolios that I presented in the article "Finax promotion for #KFN, or how to invest in ETFs cheaply, easily and without occupied head" .
Finax therefore implements a fully passive strategy and builds its portfolios from 6 equity ETFs and 4 bond ETFs:
The exact composition of the individual portfolios can be found below (but look only at 100/0 and 80/20):
The main difference from the standard Finax offer is the cost. The total annual cost of Finax PEPE in both variants is 0.72% per year of the amount of accumulated savings (exactly 0.6% + Slovak VAT). This is cheaper than in the standard Finax robo-advisory service (1.2%), but at the same time it is not a negligible cost in an investment horizon of several decades (I will come back to this).
The investment process itself is exactly the same as in the standard Finax offer:
Because the PEPE account is exempt from capital gains tax, the client does not incur any tax costs for rebalancing carried out during the investment period. The client also does not incur any transaction costs – these are included in the fixed fee paid to the robo-advisor.
However, there is one fundamental difference in the functioning of the PEPE account compared to standard investing with a robo-advisor.
To meet EU requirements, Finax gradually reduces the risk in the “European Pension” portfolios as the client approaches retirement age. In simple terms, there is a so-called glide path . It is also called a slider mechanism because it gradually shifts the portfolio allocation, reducing the share of risky assets (stocks) and increasing the share of less risky assets (bonds). In theory, this is supposed to help reduce the risk of starting to withdraw money from the portfolio at a time when it has lost a lot of value due to a stock market crash (if it happened just before our retirement or continued at the beginning of it).
The slider mechanism starts operating 10 years before the PEPE participant reaches retirement age and by the time this age is reached, the portfolio must already have a 60/40 allocation (stocks/bonds).
Here I will refer to the article on Employee Capital Plans , in which I criticized the glide path used there for being too long (20 years before retirement) and too aggressive (the PPK portfolio is to ultimately consist of only 15% stocks and as much as 85% bonds). As a result, the PPK portfolio will contain funds that, in my opinion, due to an allocation that is too conservative, will not have much of a chance to earn money in retirement.
In the case of OIPE at Finax, it looks much better in my opinion - the glide path is shorter and ends with a 60/40 allocation, which still gives a chance that the shares will at least partially make up for the withdrawals made from the portfolio in retirement.
In the European Pension, the glide path starts for women at age 50 and for men at age 55, exactly 10 years before statutory retirement. This mechanism for the basic portfolio is shown in the chart below.
For those who want to better understand how exactly the portfolio structure changes over this time, I have prepared two tables showing the portfolio composition over these 10 years.
First, the glide path from the 100/0 portfolio (click to enlarge):
And this is what the glide path from the 80/20 portfolio looks like (click to enlarge):
At the bottom of each table, I have included the cumulative cost of the ETFs included in such a portfolio. Remember, this is an additional cost incurred in addition to the fee for Finax. The total costs of investing in PEPE in a portfolio consisting of 100% equity ETFs will therefore be 0.72% + 0.16% = 0.88% per year.
And here the question just begs to be answered…
The annual fee for PEPE with the Finax robo-advisor prompted me to analyse the impact of this fee on the long-term outcome of a pension plan participant.
This is especially true when a PEPE account is opened by a very young person who plans to invest for a longer period of time, e.g. 40–50 years. In such a time horizon, the total fees paid to the PEPE provider may exceed the tax benefits (resulting from the lack of capital gains tax at retirement age) and as a result the investor could be better off buying a simple ETF on their own through a regular, taxable brokerage account. This is just the initial assumption for the analysis.
40–50 years is a long time and no one knows the future. It is equally possible to assume that robo-advisor fees will be gradually reduced (as has happened over the last 30 years with ETFs and actively managed investment funds). As a result, OIPE may prove to be a good option even over a 40–50 year investment horizon. As a reminder, the popular American ETF with the symbol SPY had a TER of 0.2% per year when it debuted in 1993, but over the years its costs dropped to 0.09%. However, this did not happen immediately.
However, if you have a shorter distance to retirement age (say, 10–20 years), Finax's PEPE will be a good tax shield . The shorter the investment period, the better, because the fee charged (currently 0.72% per year) will not have time to eat up all the benefits of not paying capital gains tax at 19%, which would inevitably have to be paid on a regular, taxable investment account.
And if along the way you decide that you do want to invest with another provider, you can transfer your funds from Finax PEPP to them at any time. Although the European Union recommended that PEPP/PEPP providers should not be changed more often than every 5 years, in Poland Finax has waived this requirement and allows you to transfer your funds to another provider earlier. As I have already mentioned – at the time of writing this article – there is no alternative to Finax PEPP.
Returning to the analysis. It is true that the longer the investment horizon, the more visible the negative impact of costs (the consumption of capital by fees simply accumulates). However, it is worth considering the topic on a specific example.
Together with Jacek Lempart from the SystemTrader.pl blog, we conducted a series of simulations on three different portfolios (100/0, 80/20, 60/40). Using historical data for the last 30 years (continuously, and for 15-year periods), we compared:
The test scenario assumed an initial investment of $1,000 and annual payments of $1,000 indexed annually to U.S. inflation. We assumed a U.S. investment perspective here to have sufficiently long historical data (to be clear, the history of the Vanguard LifeStrategy ETFs does not go back that far, so we used ETF portfolios with a similar structure). Additionally, to avoid generating costs in the taxable account (i.e., to improve the performance of the taxable account), we did not use a glide path.
Applying the glide path in the way Finax does for PEIPE would require periodically selling some units of the Vanguard LifeStrategy 80% Equity ETF in a taxable account and gradually buying the more conservative Vanguard LifeStrategy 60% Equity ETF instead, or buying bond ETFs, which would generate taxable events. And that would completely ruin the point of such an analysis, because LS would always lose to the PEI account. So we ran tests on static portfolios.
Moreover, the analysis was carried out for three periods:
I will repeat that this comparison concerned a maximum 30-year investment horizon and was extremely "friendly" for a taxable account: there was only one multi-asset ETF that rebalanced within itself. If you wanted to buy separate ETFs in a taxable account, each rebalancing would mean having to pay taxes while the capital was still being built.
Results?
Despite the higher fees, only in one case out of nine analysed did the PEI lose slightly to the taxed account (the final capital was smaller by a fraction of a percent). In the remaining cases, the PEI won by as much as 5% (the final capital was that much higher). Of course, the comparison concerned only costs and taxes, assuming that the PEI and Vanguard LifeStrategy have an identical strategy (which is not true, but there is no other way, because Vanguard does not disclose how it rebalances LifeStrategy ETFs).
To sum up: someone who intends to invest through the PEPE will most likely accumulate more capital over 30 years than someone who gets scared of the 0.72% fee and decides to invest independently in a taxable account .
Of course, the same cannot be said about a situation in which the investment in the PEPE account was to last 40 or 50 years. If instead, from today, you were to invest in a commission-free, taxable brokerage account for 40–50 years without selling anything (and thus not generating taxable events), you could come out better than investing in a PEPE with fees. Of course, provided that the capital gains tax in Poland is not increased in the meantime. How likely is such a situation to be stable for 40–50 years? Everyone has to give themselves a rational answer here. Personally, I prefer to use the tax shield here and now while it lasts, rather than believe that in 40–50 years we will still be paying a relatively low 19% tax on stock market investment profits in Poland . No matter how much we complain about taxes in Poland, the tax rate on stock market profits and dividends distinguishes us quite positively among our European neighbors (which, unfortunately, does not fill me with optimism).
It is worth remembering that as soon as other PEPE providers appear in Poland, it will be possible to make a decision to transfer PEPE to a cheaper one . And if they do not appear - this will also be a clear signal for us that the level of total costs set at "maximum 1%" is not attractive enough for potential providers of managed investment portfolios. We will live and see.
It is also worth remembering that if someone is afraid of the accumulating costs compared to a regular brokerage account, the investment within the Finax OIPE can be shortened . For example: after reaching sixty - you can decide to make a lump sum withdrawal of money from the OIPE without capital gains tax, and only then decide to withdraw money from IKE, IKZE, etc. There are at least a few scenarios for the future.
I encourage you to watch the film about PEPE recorded by Jacek Lempart.
Financial bloggers in Poland are fond of comparing the cheapest investment options available and looking for tenths of a percent of savings costs. I am not without blame here, because I also conduct such analyses and "cling" to certain products (e.g. PPK). However, I try to balance my opinions by showing pros and cons, and looking for solutions.
In a bit of contrast to my recent article on PPK, I will write that I personally would not mind investing in PPK (even with the excessive share of WIG20 in my portfolio), as long as such an investment would not constitute the majority of my investment portfolio. However, if in someone's case PPK is the only way to invest financial surpluses, then a red flag goes off in my head, which I also tried to set off in your heads.
It is very important to see the broader context. Some people focus on the high costs of OIPE Finax compared to the costs of investing in ETFs on their own through IKE brokerage accounts, while not noticing that IKE in the form of brokerage accounts is only 13% of all IKE accounts opened in Poland . The rest of IKE account holders probably pay higher fees than those they will have to pay in OIPE Finax. But this is less often mentioned. For example: Artur completely ignored this issue in the article linked earlier.
Hell! I could also complain that the fees should be lower. But why? OIPE can cost a maximum of 1% per year, and Finax - despite the lack of any competition not only in Poland but also in the whole of Europe - offered it for 0.72% per year. If someone doesn't like it - let them not use it. Nobody forces them to do so. Contrary to appearances, the OIPE account from Finax is not for everyone . If someone is able and wants to build their portfolio on their own through an IKE brokerage account, then let them do just that. It will be cheaper and certainly more flexible. This is the approach we promote in the "Atlas of the Passive Investor" training together with Artur and Jacek Lempart.
But one cannot fail to notice a much larger group of financial institution clients who – despite the encouragement of many bloggers (including me) – are not at all eager to open accounts with brokerage houses. For them, PEPE may be a great solution.
How do I know this? Just look at the report "Information on the state of the pension market in Poland at the end of 2022" published by the Polish Financial Supervision Authority. There you will find the following information on the number of IKE accounts:
As you can see, the vast majority of IKE holders are not interested in investing and selecting financial instruments on their own for now. They prefer someone to invest their funds for them.
As a result, they pay a management fee of 0.3% to 2.0% per year (depending on the TFI) on IKE in funds. For details, I invite you to the report "Best IKE with funds - IKE Ranking 2023" prepared by Analizy.pl.
The actual fees are higher because the management fee is just one of the costs that TFI clients are charged . The actual level of fees can be checked in the KID documents of the individual funds and I assure you that it is significantly higher.
For example: let's take the IKE Plus account from Goldman Sachs (formerly NN) recommended by Analizy.pl and check the fees of a fund investing in shares of dividend companies from around the world - Goldman Sachs Globalny Spółek Dywidendowych K. The management fee itself is 1.6% per year, but when we look at the KID document from March 2023 , it turns out that the total costs of the fund are 2.6% per year . And this applies to those units that are offered under IKE.
For comparison: if someone wanted to invest in developed market shares within IKE from inPZU, they would incur lower costs. According to the declaration of TFI, the management fee for the inPZU Akcje Rynków Rozwinych O fund is 0.5% per year. In practice, however, after verifying the total costs in KID, it will turn out that clients pay 1.2% per year .
These two examples are a good approximation of the true level of costs incurred by half of IKE account holders in Poland who want to invest in a globally diversified portfolio of shares.
To be clear: what we should really be looking at is how well funds track the benchmarks they are trying to emulate. And these differences (the so-called Tracking Difference) are the true measure of the costs to investors. It is also worth checking the history of funds to see if they have changed their benchmarks too often…
On the other hand, things are looking good. If we look at IKE and IKZE accounts through the prism of invested funds, a better picture emerges. Brokerage houses have (data as of the end of 2022):
It is clear that those who are already able to invest on their own are systematically adding new funds, mainly to brokerage IKE and IKZE.
And so we come to the last question…
If you are able and willing to manage a brokerage account yourself, then of course, first use an IKE brokerage account.
In turn, Finax OIPE is a good solution for those who:
An alternative for them is precisely OIPE with the Finax robo-advisor. If you still use IKE in funds, are afraid of handling a brokerage account or simply do not want to waste time on making investment decisions, you can use OIPE with a robo-advisor, migrating your account from IKE in TFI to OIPE (the legislator has provided such a possibility).
Instead of investing in more expensive investment funds within IKE, you can invest in cheaper ETFs within OIPE (but remember the product provider fee = 0.72% per year calculated on the size of assets!). It is also worth remembering that IKE account migration can only be done one way (to OIPE) - unfortunately, it is not possible to transfer funds from OIPE account to IKE account, so it is worth thinking this decision through carefully.
Ultimately, it is worth checking for yourself what fees your IKE provider charges and deciding whether, taking into account other decision-making criteria (including the flexibility criterion), it is worth transferring funds from IKE to OIPE.
In addition to purely financial considerations, there are several other criteria for choosing retirement accounts. In my case, the flexibility criterion is very important, by which I mean the following features:
How does PEPE fit into this context?
Personally, I really appreciate the automation of investing that Finax offers (also in OIPE) . While in the active part of my portfolio I decide what to invest in, I also notice that while I spend more and more time analyzing companies I also analyze ETFs and "tinker" with their selection and try to optimize (probably unsuccessfully or counter-effectively) the moments of their purchase. On the other hand, I do not have such mental challenges when investing through Finax. I simply set up a standing transfer on my account and investing is completely automatic. At the same time, I know that Finax makes sure that the portfolio is rebalanced at the optimal moment, which completely frees me from thinking about the portfolio there.
For investment “seasoned” investors, the slogan of automation may sound like a cliché, but it is precisely the behavioral aspects that can be the quickest to pay off when implementing your investment strategy (for example, by trying to “too well” tune your portfolio to your own expectations). Automation = fewer errors in the investment process. It may even turn out that the greatest savings will be achieved not on differences in declared TER costs, but on avoiding costly behavioral errors.
By the way – let each of you who invests independently – answer honestly the question when was the last time you rebalanced or checked whether there were circumstances to do so? From my observations, many of my investing friends know that it is important, but at the same time do not rebalance or do it halfway. 😉
Another factor: I really have concerns that the capital gains tax in Poland will rather increase than decrease . This is another reason why I prefer to secure a tax relief as early as possible and protect as much capital as possible with a "tax shield".
In general, I think that at the very least it is worth opening an OIPE account, if only to secure the first "year of experience" in this product . Let me remind you that tax benefits from having an OIPE (Belka tax exemption) can be achieved after a minimum of 5 years of payments. To meet this requirement, you can open an OIPE account in 2023 and deposit even just PLN 50. No one is forcing you to fill the entire limit.
We also discussed many nuances regarding PEPE with Przemek Barankiewicz during the Q&A session, which I had the pleasure of participating in. I encourage those interested to watch this conversation (I appear from the 14th minute):
The answer to this question should be clear by now. I opened an OIPE account because it is another way to protect at least part of my assets from the Belka tax . I try to use such possibilities to the maximum extent. Every year I pay full limits into IKE and IKZE accounts, and from this year also OIPE.
Not only did I open an OIPE account, but I also paid into it the maximum limit for this year = PLN 21,312. What's more, insight into my OIPE European Pension account is publicly available (similarly to the rest of the portfolio in Finax). Just go to finax.eu/pl/szaffi .
I am almost 51. My OIPE portfolio is 100/0 and will remain that way for another 4 years and counting. Then it will start a descent path, ending at 60/40 in less than 15 years. If I didn't count, despite the fees paid to Finax, I should do great on the "tax shield" and the lack of capital gains tax.
Will I withdraw funds from my PEPE account immediately after I turn 60? Or will I decide to withdraw in installments? Or will I delay the withdrawal as much as possible and let the portfolio continue to work? I will decide on this closer to my 60th birthday – also based on current knowledge about the level of taxes on investments, the current level of Finax fees, the availability and attractiveness of other PEPE providers, etc. Today, I am primarily interested in securing the possibility of maximizing my tax shield .
To be clear: I opened an OIPE account, but I do not intend to transfer funds from my IKE account to it . Why? Because I can manage a brokerage account within IKE and I build my own investment portfolio there by selecting risky assets with high growth potential (shares of individual companies). As a rule, I try to use the "tax shield" to the greatest extent possible. So instead of investing in IKE and IKZE in ETFs with an average rate of return, I try to get higher returns there by individually selecting shares. OIPE does not give me the opportunity to build a portfolio myself, so I simply invest in the Finax portfolio there (because I have no alternative in this product anyway).
The flexibility of IKE, IKZE and OIPE retirement accounts is crucial for me. You can withdraw funds from each of them – in case of an emergency – before the tax advantage age. Yes – in such a case you will have to pay tax, but I prefer to have such an option than not. For me, this is reason enough to use all available methods of saving for the future in parallel and – for as long as I can – fill up IKE, IKZE and OIPE accounts up to the annual contribution limits. The only thing I could wish for today is for these limits to be even higher than they are now. 🙂
And finally, I have one more general comment regarding the level of costs at Finax: although I would like the lowest possible fees (I would like to remind you that I was the first to negotiate a fee reduction of 0.6% per year with Finax for members of the Financial Ninja Clan), I also want this robo-advisor to be profitable. Finax is not a charity but a business that – also in the interest of its clients – simply has to earn money from its services . We already have several examples of robo-advisors that have folded from the Polish market (Aion and WealthSeed). What does it matter that Aion's offer looked great on paper in terms of costs, if their robo-advisory services are no longer available? I definitely do not want Finax to suffer such a fate. At the same time, I expect and expect that as they build a solid AuM (capital under management), they will want to share the scale effect with their clients and gradually reduce their fees. Moreover, the introduction of PEPE for all with a lower level of fees than the standard offer is definitely a step in the right direction.
NOTE: If this article has convinced you that it is worth opening an OIPE account with Finax, you can do so using the link below… and I highly recommend it because every NEW Finax client opening an OIPE in this way can receive a copy of the book “Just Buy” as a gift. I have presented the details in this post . 👊
To be clear, I'll repeat: this is not an affiliate post. Finax or anyone else does not pay me (or ever has) to describe their services. I simply think they do a good job and I support their activities in Poland.